image copyrightQuan Zhou
Quan Zhou has been called Juan and Margarita. He has been told that he speaks Spanish very well when words in perfect Andalusian have come out of his mouth. What if he eats dogs, what if he has slanted eyes. What if other things are so crazy and crazy that he doesn't even name them.
This multidisciplinary artist born in Cádiz in 1989, to Chinese parents, became known a few years ago in Spain with her first graphic novel "Agridulce Gazpacho. A Chinese-Andalusian autobiography" (2015, Astiberri).
Then he published more graphic novels, a graphic essay - "People from here, people from there" (2020, Astiberri) - that talks about migrants and Spaniards with a lot of data, but also with a touch of humor.
He now also runs a podcast, "My Spanish Family," about the experiences of the first generation of racialized people in Spain.
She says that she is not a comedian, but that she has charisma. And she has used that to tell what the childhood of a girl with Chinese features was like in the deep Andalusia of the 90s and how she sees, being as Spanish as potato omelette or flamenco - "real Spanish" things, she would joke -, racism in an increasingly multicultural country.
BBC Mundgo spoke with her on the occasion of the Hay Festival that was held in Arequipa from November 5 to 8.
You say that "one day you realized you were Chinese."
As a child, I remember asking my dad, the woman who took care of us, what it was like to be Chinese. She told me to go look in the mirror, that I would see that I have slanted eyes. I have that super clear memory because I thought I was going to find something super fanciful: lizard eyes, cat eyes, I know slit. And then when I looked in the mirror at that moment I didn't understand anything. I remember telling her that her eyes were round, inside, brown and soft on the outside and that I didn't understand her. We were both very confused.
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That happens to the children of migrants, in my case, racialized Spanish, Spanish of Chinese origin, that for you you are normal until others start pointing out to you: you are different. And it usually happens from very small. It is the awakening of difference.
I think I'm normal, until later you understand that you're not normal, that you're not from the homogeneous part of society.
But many years have passed since I discovered that I was Chinese and I have chewed on identity a lot.
What is the most absurd thing they have said to you.
It's so absurd that I can't even tell it.
What is the typical comment that other Spaniards tell you.
The "how well you speak Spanish" thing. They tell me wherever I am. And now that I go to the United States a lot, they tell me how good it is that I speak English. So, I usually say in my talks that people don't expect anything from me, I can say anything and the bar is infinitely low. It is always a constant surprise that he knows how to speak Spanish. And, here, in Malaga, people speak directly to me in English. And, being local, they consider me the other, the tourist, the migrant, never the local.
I'm already over 30 years old and I don't really care, but the language thing is something that persists all the time.
And many absurd questions, as if like a dog. But now it is true that I am in a circle of intellectual comfort and I do not receive that type of comments.
But without a doubt, what I find most funny is that phrase that racism would end if everyone had a black, gypsy friend. It's ally bingo. Many absurdities.
What is the biggest culture shock that could have occurred between your home and the world you lived in every day?
I believe that the shock is the negotiation, not realizing in a moment that you have to constantly negotiate between family and society.
I speak to you from a past perspective. Now for me, negotiating is very easy once you have your identity very well, fixed.
It seems that there is a polarization between what is Spanish is good, what is Chinese is what is bad, because everyone in my environment with whom I consider myself equal is telling me that in order to belong I have to give up who I am. I will never be able to change my face. I have to do everything to belong.
And on the other hand, you see your family suffer because they tell me that I don't speak Chinese, for example.
At that moment no one says that everything is combinable and that I don't have to reject any of the things. It is not the cultural shock of being small, but rather the suffering of negotiating the difference.
You use humor as an excuse for situations that should have been hard. How did you manage to do that and why?
Well without thinking about it. I mean, I use humor as a tool, but I also like to tell people that I am not a comedian, but I have charisma. I use humor because I think it is a very effective tool to build positive and turn something very hard into digestible. And I did it without knowing. That's who I am and that humor was captured in the pages of my first graphic novel.
But since my humor has been so applauded, sometimes I feel trapped in it. I have many voices and I like to feel comfortable with them.
You say that from certain places they only called you if you used humor. And as a representation of that "sack" that is "being Chinese", into which the entire Asian community is put. That is, the funny Chinese woman.
It is not usually attractive to make political complaints. And I notice those things. For example, on the radio, they ask me for the most closed Andalusian accent possible, because, of course, in half of Spain the Andalusian accent is a joke, even if I come to say that they have killed my grandfather. So me, Chinese and Andalusian, a joke.
And when you are young and you use humor you swallow a little bit of racism. But when I write in a more serious tone, essay or graphic essay, even if it is in a humorous tone, the attraction of the media was much less than in graphic novels.
Maybe it's because we Spaniards don't like being told we're racist...
Of course not. And for everyone, that doesn't apply to them, nothing happens here, 90% don't consider themselves racist but everyone knows someone who is racist. It's absurd, isn't it?
Do you still define yourself as Andalusian?
Andalusian and I also put Spanish, but not much.
This is a bit like the SIMS game, where you have one life but then you have expansion packs. The second country where I have spent the most time apart from Spain is not China, but the United States, so I am also acquiring things from that culture. Your identity is expanding.
But yes, I will always be Andalusian, even if people here insist on speaking to me in English. People tell me that I have a very Andalusian character, I am a very southern woman.
We Andalusians tend to be more expressive, we show more affection. Quite the opposite of what happens in the culture in China. You talk about having experienced "affective bilingualism." How do you handle that?
That's another negotiation. If they don't tell you, you don't see it. And as a girl you feel confused watching an emotional representation on TV that you don't have at home. In China, affection is shown in a different way, it's not that they don't love you, it's that there is another language. You go to give your grandfather a hug and your grandfather stays stiff. That happens a lot. And my partner, who is from Venezuela, encourages me to hug my mother.
In the West, the perspective of love is always seen from the Western point of view, as if it seemed that the other way was wrong. And it is not, it is just another language.
And what have you seen of similarities between both cultures.
For example, motherhood, which is universal. There are small everyday things that we suddenly find ourselves in.
For example, two years ago I was a finalist in the Princess of Girona awards and I met Queen Letizia. Well, my mother put a giant photo in the house for everyone to see. And I said: if you want your mother to be proud of you, meet the monarch of your country. That's the way to make your immigrant mother proud.
I'm going to tell you several phrases and you tell me about them. The first: "Being Spanish is no longer what it was."
Terrible. Spanishness exists as a currency and as an exercise of power. That is, if I consider you less Spanish because I want to preserve my privilege, we are relating from there, from 'I want to be more than you'.
There is an orientation towards a purity that does not exist, because in Spain there has always been racial diversity. What happens is that from a certain moment we all mix and it is forgotten.
Furthermore, in private life there is no way to be more or less Spanish. There is a life story. If I have spent much more time in Spain, I will have socialized for a longer time in Spain.
We are in a moment in which we are carrying hatred and in a very negative way about being Spanish. Because of course, if for me being Spanish is the flag, it is certain things that are done in the street, well that does not represent me. But I think that these people cannot monopolize what it means to be Spanish.
Luckily, I have had many moments of solidarity. I have known another Spain. Let's not let them take over what it means to be Spanish.
If being "real Spanish" becomes being that bad person, then I am not Spanish. But I want to claim that we should not leave the label of a nationality or a place to the extreme right, to people who advocate for a worse world, because a worse world is precisely what they want.
Now let's go with an adjective: Chinese stories, "made in China", working like a Chinese, Chinese virus.
No, it's not racist at all. They are sayings and nothing more. [Laughs, ironically].
The language is riddled with negative stereotypes about China. And very little responsibility in the use of language.
But I think that in this sense the power of the diaspora is quite limited. The geopolitical vision of the original country, in this case, China, has more power. And now it seems that there is an opening and showing how advanced it is, because suddenly, the best electric cars are Chinese. And this can be a rebranding.
But in any case, stereotypes never go alone and that coexists with the fact that there is a large Chinese migrant population in Spain who are dedicated to commerce and bazaars. So, how are these two things going to coexist if for Spain all Chinese are the same?
I'm going with another phrase: "You can't say anything anymore."
Yes, typical. I always say that this is simply an excuse to be abusive with language and not take any kind of responsibility. It's not that you don't have freedom of expression, because no one is going to send you to jail, they won't fine you. It is a way to use privileges and not take responsibility for the stereotypes that are being perpetuated.
What was/is easier or more difficult: a girl in a town in Andalusia in the 90s where only two Chinese families lived or a Spanish one from China in this context that we have in Spain.
You make me choose between scare or death. (Laughs). I also can't judge with the girlish mentality that I don't have now. But having diversity, people like you with a story similar to yours, makes you feel very understood and grow with more self-esteem.
In the context of now, with elections between now and November 29 (in Spain), if the government changes, we may have fewer rights. But racist behavior has now been normalized again. I have noticed it. For example, I don't go to the pool alone, because there is always whispering, and there is some child who saw at home that it is okay to mess with a racialized adult. Why does my boyfriend have to accompany me to the pool?
It is a very complex moment to navigate, but I also think that in complex moments in the end you have to resist.
Do you think there is something that has improved from Spain in the 90s to now?
There is more representation, more exposure to references on social networks, which can be positive or negative, but you see yourself more. Spanish society in the 80s was super homogeneous, but there is still a long way to go.
Although, if I'm positive, look at the gastronomic. Before there were no Chinese restaurants "for Chinese." And now yes. And how the cuisine evolves also says a lot about the migrant population that is in the country.
Another curious thing about childhood in Spain. Your name was Margarita.
Oh, yes, that is a love story, horror, tragicomedy. The next-door neighbor one day told me: "You're going to be called Margarita, like me." And I, at that moment, in childhood, clung to the Spanish name that my Spanish card gave me, right? And I said, this is Spanishness, I felt that it legitimized me.
But imagine having your child's name changed without your permission. As an adult I see that, with a lot of love, this lady stole my identity, without permission or forgiveness, without consent.
Is there possible historical memory of Spain without the historical memory of Spaniards who are not from Spain?
By making the documentary podcast "My Spanish Family", my objective is also to recover that as a historical memory, that is, we lived in this territory. Is only what is preserved Spanish from Spain? Can't he be Spanish from Equatorial Guinea, from China?
Speeches and stories are much more complex than linear. And we have already seen that silencing or not remembering our pasts does no one good. And this is also part of social justice: remembering all of us who were here.
In that mix of a Chinese family born in Spain, with that identity that is mutating, now, for even more mix, you have a Venezuelan fiancé. How are you handling the mix with this new identity?
There is something that unites Spanish-speaking cultures and I have 100% proven that. I think in Spanish and I consider Spanish my intellectual language and there is a way of relating, body language, the way we look at each other. Suddenly I'm Spanish, you're American, but if we've grown up in a Spanish-language culture, there's something positively distinctive. So, with my fiancé there hasn't been much culture shock.
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